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Monday, September 6, 2010

The Myth of Church and State

You're in for a treat today!  My husband has written a guest-post on the the myth of Church and State.


Lauren's "Marriage Mondays" posts have done a great job of capturing the secular arguments for maintaining the societal standard of marriage as being between one man and one woman. Thanks Lauren! As I was reading through them, I couldn’t help but notice that several folks have posted comments to the effect that we need to maintain the “wall of separation between church and state” with regard to marriage. She has invited me to do a guest post to address this issue.

MYTH: Church (religion) and state must be kept completely separate. Anyone who holds to the traditional standard as a matter of religious conviction should not seek to impose the traditional standard on the rest of a society.

BUST: The Founding Fathers were not ignorant or simple men. They were geniuses, the most highly respected and innovative doctors, farmers, and lawyers of their time. They were steeped in philosophy, history, and natural law, and drew from this enormous perspective and wealth of knowledge in their drafting of the founding documents (Declaration of Independence and Constitution). Although they came from many different faith backgrounds, almost to a tee they acknowledged and revered the authority of the “Creator God” of the Judeo-Christian faith tradition and the fact that the entire system of Western legal and political thought rested firmly on the foundation of this faith tradition.

A few more details…

Alexis de Tocqueville, in his 1837 novel “Democracy in America,” noted that the strength and “verve” that pulsed so strong in the young country’s veins was due to its strong moral identity, based primary on the tenets of Christianity and Christian morality. He recognized that the churches played a critical role in informing American’s consciences, but also made an ominous prediction that, when the fervor faded with time, the strong and thriving society would descend into a relativistic, anti-religious (especially anti-Catholic and anti-Christian) state the likes of which had recently given rise to the Jacobin regime and the French Revolution.

While the First Amendment (wisely) forbade the establishment of any particular religion as the “official” religion of the new Republic, it also respected the right of citizens to live (not just to worship but to live) their faith, which includes the right to speak, act and vote—to carry out all aspects of living—according to their faith-informed consciences.

If we push the “Creator God” and the unchanging Natural Law that he has stamped as his sort of “fingerprint” on creation to the wayside, the only alternative is a descent into a state of being where fallen, sinful humanity attempts to make up or change the rules for itself, as popular opinion dictates. Man begins—as he has so many times in the past—to try to arbitrarily engineer the political and legal systems to codify his own happiness as an end in itself, rather than as paths to a just society as the Creator has defined it. He begins to “grasp” at happiness and a twisted sense of justice, rather than accepting the standard that has been laid down since the beginning of time. Isn’t that precisely the sin that the serpent tempted Adam and Eve to in the garden, that they did not need God and could make up the rules for themselves?

The Founding Fathers were well aware of this tendency, of its historical consequences (descent into tyranny with relativism as the societal standard). It is, in large part, why they went through such painful deliberations to carefully craft an intricate system of checks and balances.

So how does this all relate to marriage? Going a step beyond the secular arguments that Lauren has presented for preserving the traditional view of marriage, faithful Jews and Christians—anyone who reads Scripture without a personal agenda—cannot brush aside the role of God’s design for human freedom and justice in a thriving society. That includes his design for the relationship that is intended to be the foundation of society: marriage. He has laid out the standard in rather explicit terms, beginning with Genesis 2:24, “That is why a man leaves his father and mother and clings to his wife, and the two of them become one body.” From the very beginning, he has stressed the importance “one body” or “one flesh” union as the foundational relationship, while also carefully and several times condemning, under both the Old and New Covenants, what we might today describe as “alternatives” (Genesis 19:5-8, Leviticus 18:22-23 & 20:13, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Timothy 1:9-10, Romans 1:26-27). He was also very meticulous in providing us examples of what happens when we ignore him. Let’s just say they do not end well.

Lauren, thanks for inviting me to chime in on the debate, and thank you all for reading if you’ve made it this far. Lauren will go into some more detail next week about the Natural Law and what its implications are for we who are stewards of God’s creation, especially with regard to marriage. In the meantime, I’d greatly appreciate your thoughts and comments.

God Bless and Keep You,

J- One Man @ The Whole Armor




(Isn't he great?!  Thanks for your input, J!)

13 comments:

Erika said...

I loved it! I am going to share it with a few friends. Thanks for the guest post :)

Anonymous said...

J, honestly, I'm so sad that you and your wife devote every Monday to advancing the cause of depriving fellow citizens of our country of the basic right of marriage. These people have done nothing to harm you and their marriages would have no ill effect on you. Wouldn't it be much better to devote every Monday to one of millions of truly noble causes--helping the poor, the elderly, children, animals, environment concerns, basic human rights, etc.?

I find this even more ironic considering that you are an interracial couple. Your own marriage has only been allowed in this country for the last 40 years or so. In many countries with more religious governments interracial marriage is forbidden. Thanks to fair-minded people who worked to advance civil rights, you can marry, but you work to deprive others of this right.

I ask you both to search your hearts and ask yourselves whether working to depriving people of the privileges you enjoy is really the best use of your time? For people who proclaim their religiosity, I can think of few things less Christian.

One Man said...

Anonymous,

I appreciate you taking the time to read the post and share your thoughts, though (as you probably imagined) I must respectfully disagree with your caging of the same-sex "marriage" debate as an equivalent to the Civil Rights Movement. I actually debated delving into that issue on this post, but elected to save it for brevity's sake. I will come back to it though, and hope you will consider reading that as well.

Regarding your comment that "these people have done nothing to harm you and their marriages would have no ill effect on you," Lauren addressed the issue in depth in her post on The Effects of Redefining Marriage on Civil Liberties (http://psalm34-3.blogspot.com/2010/07/effect-of-redefining-marriage-on-civil.html). The bottom line is that a law, by definition, applies to everyone, so if laws recognizing and codifying same-sex marriage are passed, all will be expected to abide by them. Those who actively oppose them in practice will be treated as outlaws by the state and treated as such. Lauren has listed several examples of where we have seen this in action already.
On a purely sociological level, the same promise was made of no-fault divorce, yet it has had a devastating effect on the permanence of marriage. Lauren will discuss that in next week's marriage post.

Finally, I am curious to know what your opinion is of the Scriptural references to marriage and homosexual practices.

God Bless,

J

Anonymous said...

Nice post. Thank you for writing it. I am not as intelligent on this subject as I ought to be. I often while away my hours working outside the home, tending to my kiddos or reading fiction that has nothing to do with educating myself on this sort of stuff. But I appreciate your post and I thank you for giving me some ideas of some books to read. I just added "Democracy in America" to the list.

Danya @ He Adopted Me First said...

Go J and Lauren! You guys rock! Interesting when folks try to redefine "Christianity" too.

Leila@LittleCatholicBubble said...

Thank you, thank you, thank you! If we forget the basics you have outlined here, things do begin to go awry in some very unfortunate ways.

I await Lauren's post on the devastation wrought by no-fault divorce, and I also would love to hear J's thoughts on how the Civil Rights Movement is fundamentally different from the same-sex "marriage" movement.

Another guest post? Please?

Megan said...

J, this was amazing! Very well articulated and supported! I started following your blog too! :)

Lisa said...

Dear Anonymous,

I have so many things to say about your comment, but for the time being I am restricting myself to the idea that Lauren and her husband are not devoting "every Monday to one of millions of truly noble causes." Lauren has very clearly laid out the argument for heterosexual marriages, so I don't feel compelled to restate her work.

To counter your points about what Lauren and J are "not" doing:
1) helping the poor-- As Lauren's former roommate, I can testify to her fiscal responsibility with regard to tithing and also donating monetarily, temporally, spiritually, and physically. Her marriage has only strengthened this, as she and her husband are like-minded in matters such as this.

2) the elderly-- have you read any of the posts about how Lauren and her mother helped care for her grandfather? She is also a staunch advocate for life from the moment of conception until natural death.

3) children-- can you truly claim that a couple so desperately desiring a child, no matter the color, appearance, mental, or emotional capability, does not passionately advocate for children??

Lisa said...

4) animals-- again, as one(s) who supports LIFE, what more would you like her to do on this topic? Her series is called "Marriage Mondays," not "Animal Rights Mondays." She is a pet owner and lover, so maybe she needs more posts on this. (Seriously?? Who ARE you? Write your own posts on this)

5) Environment concerns-- technically, environmentAL concerns,
but either way... read her posts about the
oil spill and the beach. And again... Lauren is nothing if not consistent in protecting and defending LIFE, which includes the world we live in. Is anything MORE pro-life than protecting the environment so that your children will have a place to live?

Basic human rights-- you got me there. Lauren and J just want to strip everyone of their rights. (Sigh) Once again, have you read her blog??? And clearly you don't know this couple, because their everyday life is a testimony to their support for basic human rights... and by the way, marriage is NOT one of them. It is a particular institution, but not a right... a right is something that exists inherently (ex: I am alive, and I have the right to continue to stay alive... I love someone, and I have the right to continue to love him/her), but marriage, like driving, does not fall in this category.

What is so ironic about Lauren and J's marriage? Interracial marriage has nothing to do with this argument-- it is a heterosexual (man and woman... no issues here with nature) marriage between 2 humans (same species), one who happens to have a spectacular tan and no dance moves, and the other with a slight tan due to beach time, and much better groovin' skills. :-)

OK, I need to attend to my kids now, but will leave you with this-- the proclamation of religiosity is spoken with their lives, not just this blog, and it in no way contradicts the words and life of Jesus.

Lisa said...

And Lauren... YKMR???

One Man said...

All,

Thanks for the great comments. I greatly appreciate your thoughts and feedback. I am already thinking about follow-up guests posts for future Marriage Mondays.

Megan,

Thanks. I hope you enjoy reading what I have to share on my blog. I don't get to post quite as often as Lauren, but try to make it worthwhile when I do. Again, I appreciate your thoughts.

Lisa,

Right on! I almost died laughing. You're right, I can't dance, but that's supposed to be a super secret. Oh well, I guess I'll let it slide...this time.

Back to homework...

J

Megan said...

Lisa, excellent, excellent, excellent! :)

AnniePhil said...

hey Lauren, Lisa called you tan! high five!