Sigh... It seems like yesterday! :)
But I'm getting the hang of things and she's taking longer naps! So Marriage Monday is back!
First up: Answering questions and replying to comments!
Miss Gwen:
I'm just wondering though-wouldn't a no-fault divorce be a safety-net option for women (or men) trying to escape an abusive marriage? What if an abusing spouse refuses to grant a divorce? If you run away or leave the marriage, you can still run into all sorts of legal/financial problems is you're legally still married. I'm just saying...
The answer was in the original post!
"To be clear, previous to no-fault divorce you had "FAULT" divorce. Every state had their own grounds for divorce, but virtually all of them included adultery, abuse, cruelty or desertion. For any of these reasons, one could get divorced."
P.S. Thanks, Miss Gwen, for your sweet comments regarding Abigail and for wishing us a successful adoption! :)
Anonymous:
Oh my gosh, women working outside the home and people marrying at an older age are bad things?!!!!
Again, the answer is in the post:
It is clearly concluded, that changing the availability of divorce has affected the permanence of marriage and changed the behavior of millions.
P.S. Thank you for your prayers, Anonymous. I am thankful for all prayers to our God of compassion and love for open hearts.
Frank:
But I’m sure banning gay marriage would make the divorce rate go down, even there. Oh, wait: “Divorce rates higher in states with gay marriage bans”
Sarah answered this for me in a comment:
"not only are divorce rates lower in MA, so are marriage rates - lower than the US average. So if less people are getting married, period, then it isn't so surprising or impressive that less people are getting divorced."
P.S. As always, thanks for your support in our adoption, Frank! Congratulations on your new little baby girl!! I'm so jealous that you get to post pictures!
NEXT UP: Contraception and Same-sex Marriage!
12 comments:
I'm glad they are back! I like reading what you have to write on the subject. I'm not very articulate when it comes to issues like this.
LOVE THIS! :) I have missed you!
Yay for Marriage Mondays! And cool, I even got to be part of the post! :)
Hooray for Marriage Mondays!! I am glad they are back, but I am glad for the reason that you had to take a break!
You go girl...work it, work it! :) Love your answers- full of logic and truth!
I'm glad these are back, too, Lauren!
"not only are divorce rates lower in MA, so are marriage rates - lower than the US average."”
Good point, Lauren and Sarah. The CDC numbers are for divorces/1000 people, not divorces/1000 married people. I can’t find divorce rates/1000 married couples online, so we’ll have to do some figuring ourselves.
Here’s the marriage rate per 1000 people for 2007 (the most recent final data I can find):
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/Marriage%20Rates%2090%2095%20and%2099-07.pdf
Here’s the divorce rate per 1000 people for the same year:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvss/Divorce%20Rates%2090%2095%20and%2099-07.pdf
If we put those two statistics together we get a ratio of marriages to divorces. If we throw out Nevada, which has ridiculously high marriage rates (Vegas—holla!), Massachusetts comes in 4th in the nation, with 2.565 marriages for every divorce. Guess which state is right ahead of them, with 2.577? Iowa! Hmm. What do those states have in common? Let me think…*
So, to answer Sarah’s objection, this is what we see when we look at the data: Massachusetts has a marriage rate that’s a little bit below the national average (5.9 vs. 7.3, or ~80%), but they have a divorce rate that’s WELL below the national average (2.3 vs. 3.6, or ~64%). There’s no way around it: a marriage in Massachusetts is more likely to last than a marriage in just about any other state in the US.
OK. That’s way past my nerd quotient for the evening. I'm going to go watch football.
*I know, I know: Gay marriage wasn’t yet legal in Iowa when these numbers came out. Still, the coincidence made me chuckle.
Frank - This is the chart I was going by (which shows VA has a higher-than-typical rate of married men and women and a lower rate of divorced folks than the US overall. More impressive than MA and there is no same-sex marriage in VA):
http://pewsocialtrends.org/2009/10/15/marriages-and-divorce-a-50-state-tour/
I chose this website because it makes the data a little easier to work with. Yes MA has some decent stats -- as do some very conservative states. Also, stats can be tricky (as you know). For example, socio-economic status and education level are often key factors in differentiating how Americans view married life, when they decide to marry, if they cohabit and for how long, if they get divorced, etc. It's no surprise that some of the poorest states have some of the worst statistics regarding family stability.
That doesn't mean the debate over same-sex marriage is somehow null and void - it just means there are many other factors that affect family life, and these can affect stats as well.
Cool idea! I hope I can join in future discussions. We are transplants to MA and I was surprised to learn how small the %'age of same-sex marriage is compared to the total. Trivial or not, I don't know, but MA also has the second highest percentage of reported Catholics too. That conceivably could have more to do with the divorce rate being low than same sex marriage laws.
Excellent points, Sarah. My husband said the same thing regarding the relability of statistics. He's taking grad level stat right now and is far too aware of the ability to skew numbers. So I guess numbers CAN lie! :) Not saying these are off- just that there is more than goes into them as Sarah pointed out.
Very well said, Sarah! Much better than I could have!
Glad you're still around, Frank! I suspect you'll find next week's topic very interesting...
Sarah: Exactly! There are lots of factors that impact marriage and divorce rates, especially education and personal income. But looking at the data (yours or mine), I think you would have a hard time arguing that gay marriage is a very significant factor. You agree?
Lauren: It’s true, statistics never tell the whole story. But you can’t just discount them, either. A lot of what worries you about gay marriage just flat out isn’t happening in Massachusetts. I seriously doubt it will in Iowa, DC, or anywhere else, either.
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